Finally… Women In Ministry!!!

So let’s start this post off with full disclosure.  I was pissed.  Actually, I think I still am!

Can I say that on a Christian blog?

I was in my Theology Class on last Thursday, and Women in Ministry came up again.  I guess I had endured one too many male-dominant conversations that would render women silent in the church forever.  I knew that the majority of the students, male and female would disagree with me.  Yet being the man I am,

I spoke!

I do not believe that the bible forbids a woman from any other expression of ministry than that of the Pastor/Elder.  Yes, that means that I hold that a qualified woman can preach from the pulpit, to men and all.

This, of course, started an uproar in class.  Even the female facilitator tried to convince me that a woman, Biblically, should not teach men.  She went on to explain that she doesn’t teach, she facilitates.  Does a female facilitator not have authority over a male student?  She certainly lets us know when we can speak and or need to move the discussion along.  What’s wrong with that?

In my opinion, she is great at what she does, and every now and again she even dispenses these nuggets of knowledge.  I dare not call it teaching lest she be fired, I suppose.

Anyway, after 4o years a local church has decided to allow women to preach and I say Amen and Amen again.

Elders of Irving Bible Church spent 18 months studying the question of women in ministry, including whether women should be allowed to preach.  Their key conclusions:

•The accounts of creation and the fall (Genesis 1-3) reveal a fundamental equality between men and women.

•Women exercised significant ministry roles of teaching and leading with God’s blessing in both Old and New Testaments.

•Though the role of women was historically limited, the progress of revelation indicates an ethic in progress leading to full freedom for women to exercise their giftedness in the local church.

•Key New Testament passages restricting women’s roles were culturally and historically specific, not universal principles for all time and places.

•Though women are free to use all of their giftedness in teaching and leading in the church, the role of elder seems to be biblically relegated to men.

SOURCE: Irving Bible Church

As a man I say this with all sincerity.  The type of restrictions that some put on women totally disgust me.  It turns my stomach and causes the same kind of righteous indignation that rises in me whenever I see gross injustice, like that of slavery.

I have seen men read from “The Daily Word,” (mess that up), and call it preaching.  I have also been challenged by some incredible, well-prepared, gifted, and down-right talented female preachers.

To say that there is nothing that we (the church) can learn from a woman simply because of her sex is frightening to me.  And look, I understand that men and women are different.  So a man is to be the head of the household.  I agree and I am.  Does that mean that I can never learn from my wife?  That I never have to submit to my wife?  Does that mean that my 13 year-old son gets to be superior to my wife because he has a penis?

Get a grip!

Okay, I told you I was angry.  I shall now return to my irenic, peace-loving self.  Well until a fundamentalist, (whom I will love anyway), tries to get on here and quote:

1 Timothy 2:12, where the Apostle Paul says, “But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.”

I will then ask for the following.

1. Exegetical Statements (What did it mean then) to include the historical, grammatical, contextual and literary interpretations.
2. The Theological Statement (The eternal principle extracted since this was, clearly, not written to us) and
3. The Homiletical Statement (How exactly does it apply to us today?)

Finally,  I will ask if you are in a position of authority.  By that I mean a Senior Pastor or Elder.  Just being a man doesn’t cut it here.  I ask this because I keep wondering, how did so many men get the authority to forbid women in the church to do anything, if they themselves are not in a position of authority?

As always your comments are welcome.

A Faith I Can Live With

I recently went out with my wife and a group of new friends.  We saw “The Good Negro,” a play about the civil rights movement and the struggle of the leaders to be effective, to be perfect, to be respected as human.

After the play, we all gathered at a local restaurant for food and discussion and it happened again.  You see, (and if you frequent my blog you already know), I have been on a journey for more than a year now.  After many years in ministries and 5 years on a church staff as the youth minister, I walked away.  I walked away knowing one thing for sure.  The faith that I shared with so many and for so long was not a faith I could live with.  I’ll tell you why in a moment, but back to the dinner for now.

Without intention, maybe even with resistance from me, the conversation merged into a discussion on truth, religion, God, and spirituality.  This kind of unplanned conversation has been happening to me frequently for more than a year.  I have concluded that people all over the world are searching for a faith they can live with.  I almost want to draw parallels between the civil rights movement and the unorganized spiritual movement that seems afoot.  I shall resist.

Why I could not live with “charismatic faith”

I can give you many, many anecdotal stories about why I was not content with the faith of my childhood.  Instead I’ll just say this.  I grew up in the charismatic church, and while it took me a long time to get to a place of frustration, I did get there.  The charismatic experience is too much of just that for me – experience.  Often times the experience is not questioned.  Often truth is presented that is not reasonable and has little biblical truth as its basis.  The foundation of truth, the way truth is determined in that group of denominations, is based on (as I have experienced it): general revelation (the Bible), special revelation (things that God says now), experience, and emotion.  Reason is often frowned upon and consideration of the global and historic church’s position on issues is unheard of for most within.

This approach worked for me until I started asking a series of ‘why’ questions.  Like i said before, if you are a frequent reader, you know all this.  If not, search “rethinking church” on the blog and you’ll let the gist of it.

Finally, I have come to conclusions about the basis of my faith.  In other words, this is where I stand now.  I have come to a place of peace and rest.

I have as my foundation now the five Solas.  I will compare and contrast each of these as I go further, but let me start with an overview.  Believe me when I tell you that the differences between charismatic theology and what is called reformed theology are night and day.

A faith I can live with.

Sola Scriptura, Sola Gratia, Sola Fide, Solus Christus, and Soli Deo Gloria:  With scripture alone as our primary theological authority, we conclude that salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, and in this, God alone receives the glory.

As I read that I think to myself, I don’t know any charismatic Christians who would disagree with any of this verbally.  However, as I will point out over the next few posts, what is said and what is done in charismatic circles are two astoundingly different things.

Let me end here by saying, I am also decidedly irenic in my theological discussions.  I’m not here to bash those who are from the traditions of my past.  The fact remains that I have learned of God and have come to faith in Him in very charismatic environments.  Without the things that I have learned and without the relationship that I developed with God in these environments, I would have had nothing to sustain me.  It must be understood from the start that I love my brothers and sisters who remain.

Yet my faith seeks understanding.  “fides quaerens intellectum”

The One Thing I’d Change about Church is…

So I really want to know.  If you could change any one thing about the church, what would it be?

Maybe We Should Blame God for the Subprime Mess? Yeah Whatever!

Time, a partner with CNN, recently posted an article with the question in the header as a suggestive statement.  The opening lines question as follows:

Has the so-called Prosperity gospel turned its followers into some of the most willing participants — and hence, victims — of the current financial crisis?

To that question I scream, “Yes, Hell Yes!

In the pentecostal circles of my upbringing, magic theology rules.  God can do the impossible.  So if you have bad credit, pray about it.  God will cause your creditors to forget that you owe them.  Not only can you expect a personal year of jubilee, you can also expect the house of your dreams.  No need to start small and work your way up.  No need to be disciplined and business-like.  No need to take responsibility and honor your commitments.  Forget all of that, just pay the tithe, the pastor’s anniversary multi-thousand dollar collection, the soon-to-come collection for the pastor’s Christmas fund, buy all your gifts from the Pastor’s personal line of products, and yes, you will be blessed.  Homeless, but blessed.

Look, I get the story.  The headline kills me, however.  God is not and does not condone this foolishness.  So maybe we should do the following as Christians so that God is not associated with this mess:

1. Get and maintain good credit by living within or under our means.
2. Stop using credit.  Cash and carry people, cash and carry.
3. Stop allowing churches to be tax-exempt.  The fact is that many churches are not charities.  (One man getting rich is a scam, not charity.)  Churches with legitimate charities can form separate CDCs and such.
4. Support the congressional investigation into the lifestyles of televangelists and do your own investigation.  Request a 990 from your church.  As a good steward, it is your business.
5. Stop the silence.  These predators are raping and pillaging the poor.  (That’s why so many mega churches are in poor neighborhoods.)  It’s time to scream!  This “get out of poverty by making me rich” teaching is not of God.  Let’s put emotions aside and be real about this.  The only people getting rich at these places are the pastors and their select few minions.

I know you have something to add, so go for it.

Rethinking Who Speaks for God

Most of my life I have been a part of charismatic congregations.  In many ways, these groups of people were very different, and in many ways they were very much the same.  One of the ways in which they remain the same is the wide acceptance that God speaks directly to us today.

It was, and still is, commonplace to hear a preacher start a proclamation by saying, “God told me to tell you.”  The fact is that you don’t even need a position or a title.  Anybody can speak for God.  Apparently God decided to go against the way He’s been doing things for all of human history and started speaking directly to individuals without validation.

Over the years, I’ve heard many things that people have signed God’s name to, and over the years more than a few have raised my eyebrows.  There was the time at noon-day prayer when my wife stood up and gave the report that her widowed father had married over the weekend and that she was thankful to God.  BAM!!  One of the sisters hit the floor.  They rushed her out and got her together.  MY wife later found out that the woman had previously revealed that God had told her that the now-married man would be her husband.

As a teenager I was at a prayer meeting with the Philbert family.  They were seeking direction from God about a major decision.  Early in the evening, a word from the Lord came instructing them to make the move.  “Wow,” I thought, “God is on the move tonight.”  Then later that night, an elder who had gotten there late had another word from the Lord.  Confirmation?  Not at all.  The complete opposite was what he was told by God.  “Don’t make the move, and if you do, trouble will follow.”

This quickly turned into the kind of circus you can only find at church.  The opposing supposed prophets would have to try and figure out who heard wrong.  Neither would concede that he had made it up.  The elder had title on his side, and so the clown act ended as did the prayer meeting.  The family got together later and through reason decided what was best for the family.

Has God been speaking directly to you?  Recently here in Texas two people have been making that claim.  First a Cannibalism Suspect: ‘God Told Me To Do It‘. By KENNETH DEAN.  Then there’s the pastor that has come to be know as Pastor Spanky.  He spanked, sodomized and raped a female member and forced her to look in a mirror.  He then said to her “This is what God told me told me to do to you.”

So does this not beg for us to question a couple of things?  First, is God speaking to us directly today?  You might be surprised to know that the larger part of the orthodox church has said ‘no’ for most of church history.  Each school of thought has its own scholars that articulate well their position.  Continuationism says ‘yes.’  Hard cessationism says ‘no,’ and soft cessationism says, “It’s possible, but not normative and not probable.”

Consider this.  If you had to send sensitive documents across the country — the type of document that, if in the wrong hands, could affect the lives of millions of people in a negative way — what measures would you take to ensure that the package wasn’t tampered with or misdelivered?  Would you simply put a forty-one cent stamp on it and drop it in the nearest blue receptacle?  God forbid.

Let me suggest here that there is nothing more dangerous on the planet than the signature of God.  Put God’s name on it, and people are afraid to question.  Put God’s name on it, and people disregard reason and critical thinking.  Put God’s name on it, and you are sure to hear some well-intentioned mother of the church say, “Baby, don’t question God.”  People, if we cannot be 100% certain of what God says and does not say, then, my friends, isn’t all lost?

We are quick to be angry at the insane murderer who cites God as a reason for evil.  Yet so many casually stamp God’s name on doctrines, desires, and encouragements.  This practice is killing many in the Body of Christ.  Many have walked away because something God never said in the first place failed to come to pass.

God, above all, takes His Word seriously, and so long ago He set criteria in place for us to know who is really speaking for God and who is a fraud.  Here is how you can be S.U.R.E.  A person speaking directly for God should or should be:

1. Show convincing signs of a Prophet (some undeniable, supernatural display of God’s power). Often these sign where on demand.
   

2. Unequivocally bring or give all glory to God, not self or any other.
   

3. Relentless and Ready to die by the fact that God said it.

4. Exact; not only in message (must be orthodox) but in record.  There is no error margin when speaking for God.

Deuteronomy 13:1 (ESV)

“If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder, 2 and the sign or wonder that he tells you comes to pass, and if he says, ‘Let us go after other gods,’ which you have not known, ‘and let us serve them,’ 3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams. For the Lord your God is testing you, to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 You shall walk after the Lord your God and fear him and keep his commandments and obey his voice, and you shall serve him and hold fast to him. 5 But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has taught rebellion against the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you out of the house of slavery, to make you leave the way in which the Lord your God commanded you to walk. So you shall purge the evil [1] from your midst.

A New Prophet like Moses

Deuteronomy 18:15 “The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your brothers—it is to him you shall listen— 16 just as you desired of the Lord your God at Horeb on the day of the assembly, when you said, ‘Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God or see this great fire any more, lest I die.’ 17 And the Lord said to me, ‘They are right in what they have spoken. 18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers. And I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him. 19 And whoever will not listen to my words that he shall speak in my name, I myself will require it of him. 20 But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name that I have not commanded him to speak, or [6] who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.’ 21 And if you say in your heart, ‘How may we know the word that the Lord has not spoken?’— 22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him.

I had to wrestle with this as I know many will, having grown up in an environment where everybody supposedly heard from God, including myself.  My study on this matter has required me to change my thinking about these things.  How about you?  Do you have questions, concerns, comments?  Want to discuss this in private?  Go to the PM page.